With the local inventory of quality properties being fairly tight, some homebuyers are considering where they might compromise. Can you live with a smaller home and/or lot? A home that needs work? Different neighborhoods?
Or how about school districts?
Would you consider a change in schools when you can get a better value on homes in that district? There are highly-ranked elementary and middle schools in most districts, let’s just look at the high schools for this discussion.
The stats from www.greatschools.org:
| High School | 2010 API Score | 2009 API Statewide Rank | Parent rating | # of students |
| Canyon Crest | 894 | 10 | 9 | 1,780 |
| Torrey Pines | 870 | 10 | 8 | 2,691 |
| Westview | 851 | 10 | 9 | 2,431 |
| San Dieguito | 847 | 9 | 8 | 1,495 |
| La Jolla | 841 | 9 | 8 | 1,637 |
| San Marcos | 829 | 9 | 9 | 2,030 |
| La Costa Canyon | 816 | 9 | 7 | 2,534 |
| Carlsbad | 812 | 9 | 7 | 2,944 |
I’m not advocating Westview or San Marcos High Schools, but when you can get substantially more house for the money, are they worth considering? Parts of Carlsbad are in the San Marcos district, and Westview isn’t far from Carmel Valley for the buyers who are looking for those locations.
The parent ratings and comments on the website could be unduly influenced, but the API testing is administered by the state. From the greatschools website:
Although test results can be an indicator of what’s happening in the classroom, they don’t tell you everything about the quality of a school. Always look at more than one measure when judging school performance and visit in person before making any final determination.The API Statewide Rank ranges from 1 to 10. A rank of 10, for example, means that the school’s API fell into the top 10% of all schools in the state with a comparable grade range.
Your thoughts?
LCC, what a disappointment. We pay big money to live in the south part of Carlsbad and not be in the San Marcos school district. Maybe that was a mistake.
We all want our kids to go to school with other smart kids in a good environment. So it’s funny that API scores are more a reflection of the students who attend a school than what the school did to achieve it.
Growing up, my high school was one of the top schools and I guess it deserved some of that for being a good environment. But it’s funny how many parachute kids also attended because their parents wanted to join the club, and let me tell you they were not allowed to take the API tests and they probably would have failed.
Bottom line, the API scores are mainly reflection of the students (who are allowed to take it) and not as much the school. The school can provide a good environment and even attract good students. Including students who pretended to live in our city but didn’t. Yeah, kinda weird.
I’d say 80% of the school’s success was simply that parents who cared chose to send their schools there and forced their kids to learn. And they all cared that the school continued to get high API scores so their houses would continue to appreciate to ridiculous values and they could feel justified in moving the family halfway across the planet to this specific city.
We don’t have any kids, so I’ve not studied school districts in detail. How significant is a 60-70 point spread in the API if all are over 800?
What do people think about SDA? I went there and loved it.
Why is everyone in this country so focused on public schools. In the near future I will be sending my kids to a budget private school, live in a crappy school district, and send my mortgage discount toward tuition. Even the budget private schools are better than any public. The kids that attend are there because their parents care enough to spend their own money not everyone else’s money. Forget the school district! Buy where you like and what you can afford.
I think you may be surprised to find private schools, on average, are just as bad as the public schools. There are great private schools but they are few and far inbetween. The main problem I’ve seen is the fairly low standards and background checks used in hiring teachers.
“The kids that attend are there because their parents care enough to spend their own money not everyone else’s money.”
That is ironically exactly why the top public schools are desired. People spent half a million on a house just so they could sent their kids to my high school. Those houses now average $1-$2 million, post bubble.
My wife and I decided to move to the coast and considered all the different available school districts. Our oldest daughter was selected (by lottery draft) for the High Tech Middle charter school. We purchase a new home in La Costa Ridge which tracked into San Marcos high school. What we have learned is that since the redistricting, many years ago, that the San Marcos High School (at the corner of San Marcos Blvd and Rancho Santa Fe) has become a top notch school. The change of demographics (parental involvement) along with new teacher turnover has transformed the school into an excellent one. My oldest has gone on to High Tech High while my youngest daughter is going to track into San Marcos High by choice (she is more athletic). Just a point of view from the inside of the situation. We, along with all of the neighbors that we know, are very happy with the situation.
kwebb
“The main problem I’ve seen is the fairly low standards and background checks used in hiring teachers.”
I can only speak from personal experience, but this has simply not been true for myself, my friends, or my siblings. All the schools I went to were brutally in the budget category (in bad neighborhoods).
Teachers do not make good schools. Good kids and good parents make good schools. Teachers are a result of involved parents having the power to fire.
ooooo, one of my favorite topics!
We bought in Oceanside in ’01 thinking that we’d move to a better school district later…Well, we’re still in Oceanside. Our son is now in 1st grade at an awesome elementary school (Ivey Ranch) and doing great! We have so many friends here who planned on “moving up” to the Carlsbad district but have decided to stay. I wonder if schools will improve in Oceanside and San Marcos because the recession will cause people to stay? If you look at SAT scores, El Camino High in Oceanside is only FIVE points below Carlsbad high (1573 and 1578).
That said…If I fall in love with a place at a good price in the San Dieguito district, I’m still going to buy it. Someone posted SAT scores and percentages on this blog a while back. I hadn’t thought it before, but the percentage of kids taking the SAT varies by school. So a whopping 80% of kids at Torrey Pines High take the SAT, while only 33% of kids at San Marcos and El Camino take it. So while my kids SAT score will probably be the same whether he attends El Camino or Torrey Pines, I like the idea that at Torrey Pines (or other top ranked school) he would be around other kids taking the SAT too. Perhaps if all his classmates are talking about going to college, then he’ll go too? Is this worth paying a fortune to buy a home in the Torrey Pines (or Canyon Crest) boundaries? No, not to me. Not if we have to struggle to do it.
“Teachers do not make good schools. Good kids and good parents make good schools.”
As a teacher I could not agree with this statement more. I taught for 5 years in public schools and am in the middle of my 5th year in private school and there are good and bad teachers everywhere. The difference is the parents and the culture of the school.
I worked in one school where about 2/3 the kids went to college but I was frustrated because many more of them were capable, they just didn’t see it as a realistic option and their parents didn’t expect it.
I now work in a school where everyone is expected to go to college. I realize that college isn’t for everyone but I want my kids to go to school where the culture is that everyone expects you to. Even the few kids who don’t go to college go on to do something after high school. Some have started their own business, others have joined the military. I’m not aware of any who graduate and then sit at home and do nothing. Unfortunately, that is acceptable at some schools (including at least one school on the above list).
That being said, I think San Marcos HS has nowhere to go but up. They are just beginning to get the influx of kids from San Elijo who are coming from families who will help keep them motivated, encourage good grades, etc.
Jim suggests visiting in person. This is a good idea. You should visit at different times, though. Lunchtime can be especially enlightening – how many kids leave campus?, where do they go?, etc.
Thanks kwebb, good to hear back from you!
Thank you SDteacher for your insider views, and support for other high schools besides your own.
There are homebuyers reading this that could make life-changing decisions as a result. I’m glad that you and everyone else are willing to participate!
This topic hits home to me. I’m trying to figure out whether the San Marcos school discount is appropriate or not. Supposedly Rancho Carrillo has an excellent elementary school, and with the affluent (you’d have to think, given the pricing) families with young children moving into RC, LCR, LCG, etc., I figure San Marcos must improve.
I went to San Dieguito High (before it was an academy) and heard all the stories about SM having the highest teen pregnancy rate on the planet. My mom also taught at SDHS and LCC. When you mention San Marcos schools her face turns like she got a whiff of a cow pasture. Test scores are maybe the true measure of a school, but perception is reality when it comes to home value.
“I realize that college isn’t for everyone but I want my kids to go to school where the culture is that everyone expects you to.”
I completely agree. This might be the biggest intangible about living in CV. And seeing the home prices here, plenty of people obviously can’t put a price on that.
If there’s any more commentary out there on any of the school districts mentioned, I’m interested in hearing all of it.
How will the new High School in Carlsbad come into play? Anyone know the proposed boundries?
“Teachers do not make good schools. Good kids and good parents make good schools.”
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As a former public school teacher, I also agree 100% with this statement.
Oftentimes, the worst schools have the best teachers — who like being challenged and really believe in giving everything they’ve got to disadvantaged students.
School scores and quality of educational environment are all about the parents of the students who feed into the schools.
I too am interested in the proposed new boundaries of the new Carlsbad HS. I just moved into very south coastal 92011 and was hoping my daughter would have several HS options from the new school, to Carlsbad HS and even LCC (which some kids in my neighborhood attend apparently because they are below their attendance targets).
I talked to the school superintendent’s office today, and the boundaries have not been set yet – maybe next year.
The new high school, still un-named, is scheduled to open in Fall, 2013. The groundbreaking is Oct 14th.
jstoesz,
I’m confused, you say you disagree with me and then begin by completely agreeing with me. I was the first to make the point that the kids who go to the school determine the school’s success.
My point about teacher standards is about private schools. You must have missed that part, because your comment doesn’t make any sense. Your experience in poor neighborhoods has nothing to do with the legal obligations of a private school. Private schools are allowed to and do hire ex criminals and other teachers who wouldn’t be allowed to teach in a public school. This is simply a statement of fact and reality. It’s a comment on the legal loophole and nothing more.
Furthermore, it’s also quite a myth that poorer neighborhoods somehow have low school budgets. It’s exactly the opposite in California. California heavily subsidizes the worst schools, and the only reason the better schools have any extra budget is because the parents are literally donating out of their own pocketbooks. It was a slap in the face to see the kind of things the worst schools could buy that we didn’t have. Get your facts straight here. I’ve been to enough schools to compare rather than guess based on preconceptions.
“Private schools are allowed to and do hire ex criminals and other teachers who wouldn’t be allowed to teach in a public school. This is simply a statement of fact and reality.”
I don’t know which schools you are talking about but I would stay the hell away from those. The two private schools I have worked at not only performed background checks on me and other employees but also on volunteer coaches.
Interesting discussion, and sorry to be late to the comments. I have a kid at Canyon Crest Academy, which has only existed for 6 years but surpassed Torrey Pines as the high school with the highest API, and I can confirm from our experience a few of the comments above.
I never realized that a side benefit of having our kids attend such a high-performing high school would be to have them actually influenced by peer pressure to perform well. I find I don’t have to give my kid a nudge AT ALL when it comes to prepping for SATs, studying hard, etc, because there’s more than enough of that talk at school among her peers. She had a get together last night at our house with about 8 kids, and one of them actually didn’t come because she’s taking the SAT, not today, but NEXT WEEKEND! She actually chose to miss a party on a Sat night because she needed to study for the SAT. With that kind of work/study ethic, I can tell you that I don’t have to say a word about my daughter studying because she already hears it enough from all her friends. Of course, the real concern is that things will get out of whack with the pressure, which is something we have to guard against. The kids DO put themselves under a lot of pressure to do it all.
They all seem to want to perform well on SATs, take challenging classes, participate in community service, sports, drama, music, film production, art or whatever other extra curriculars interest a kid. It’s a bit scary, actually, how much focus there is on doing it all and doing it all well; of course the natural suspicion is that many kids are doing it all for college resume-building, but honestly, there could be worse pressure than that. And also, even if they have college resume building in the backs of their minds, they may actually find something that really turns them on along the way.
Not to say that CCA doesn’t have its worries with the normal issues (drugs, alcohol, etc) but the kids do seem extraordinarily focused on making the most of their academics and total high school experience. I can tell you, they’re waaaaaay more mature and focused than I was at that age! It astounds me. So, it’s a nice by-product of living in this school district…peer pressure in place of parental nagging!
I want to comment on one more thing –
sdbri, you mention, “Furthermore, it’s also quite a myth that poorer neighborhoods somehow have low school budgets. It’s exactly the opposite in California. California heavily subsidizes the worst schools, and the only reason the better schools have any extra budget is because the parents are literally donating out of their own pocketbooks. It was a slap in the face to see the kind of things the worst schools could buy that we didn’t have. Get your facts straight here. I’ve been to enough schools to compare rather than guess based on preconceptions.”
I have to differ with you on that. It’s not true. There are two ways of funding school districts in California, and it’s very complex so I won’t go into details, but school districts can either be called a “Revenue Limit” district or a “Basic Aid” district, both relating to how they receive their funding from the state. The Revenue Limit districts get the vast majority of their funding from the state and are beholden to horrific state budget cuts and are in big trouble when the state has a budget crisis, as is the case currently (hence San Diego Unified’s budget woes). The other type of district, Basic Aid, is one in which the local property tax revenue far exceeds the amount that the state would fund for the local education so that district is able to mainly use its property taxes to fund its schools. Although property taxes are generally flat or decreasing in most Basic Aid districts these days, it’s still a FAR better deal to be able to have the property tax revenue that allows a community’s schools to be a Basic Aid district than a Revenue Limit district. Unfortunately and unfairly, the Basic Aid districts are obviously the wealthier communities and the Revenue Limit districts are the less wealthy communities and can’t do much but slash the school district budget when the state cuts their funding.
So, the opposite of your claim is actually true. I’m not sure what you’re referring to with the statement that California is “subsidizing the worst schools”.