Reader southswell sent in this comment:
Jim
Thanks for your continuous housing education for the regular folks.  I bought my house last year in Palos Verdes area (close to Redondo Beach) and was wondering if you had any links or posts related to home renovation suggestions. The home is about 4k sq feet in a gated area but hasn’t been updated since it was built in 1979.
My wife and I are starting to upgrade the home but we are not sure if our understanding of “high end” improvements is out dated. Would you and/or your readers be able to provide some guidance on what type of materials (mostly in bathroom and kitchen) are expected in a 1.6m home?
It sounds like you need a full renovation.  Â
It is best to devise a complete plan in writing. Then have a competant architect draw plans, and have your city/county approve them before having your favorite general contractor turn the old rambler into a showplace.
Learn from my clients featured here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rziaqhaUjg
Their 6-month project turned into a 12-month when they had to upgrade the plans with a better architect, which you’ll appreciate if you are making structural changes.
When planning the upgrades, think about what the next buyer is going to want to buy. If you plan to be there for 20-30 years, you may just want to make it comfortable for you, and wait until you sell to include the latest upgrades. But I believe in doing the max improvements now so you can enjoy them, and make whatever changes later if your new digs grow old.
If you are constrained by the current floor plan and just want to improve what’s there, I’d spend as much money on the kitchen as your budget allows, and then bathrooms and closets:
Shop around for the most unique yet neutral granite slabs you can find.
For PV, you’d want to buy the full set of top-of-the-line stainless appliances (Viking, Wolf, etc.).
Minimum 18″ (and 24″ preferred) travertine laid diagonally on the floor.
Buy quality faucets and lighting.
Supplement/update surfaces like the fireplace with stacked stone. This is my fireplace at home – it was lava rock originally, and a guy demo’d the 70’s look, and rebuilt the fireplace in one weekend >>>>>>
Check the comments left by readers!
Funny, Living in PV, I’d think a more appropriate handle would be “Northwestswell”.
Anyway, I’ve been thru 2 significant remodels here in Manhattan Beach (one at $125K and one over $300K) and thought I’d offer some thoughts. Re-reading Southswell’s initial comment, it’s my understanding that you’ve already started the process. If you plan to upgrade the entire place I would strongly suggest to hire an architect and get (as JTR says) a “complete plan”. You can then choose to either do it all at once or bit by bit. That way, you ensure the changes you make flow thru the entire house. Spending a bit extra for the services of a professional will pay you back ten fold over the years. Next, make sure you and your wife are eye to eye on the plan as well as financials.
What’s with the travertine in San Diego? I don’t get it.
Up here in LA, which is the market PV is in, unless otherwise dictated by the architectural style or design aesthetic of the house, I would expect any property above $1.5m to have hardwood flooring throughout as much of public space and living area as possible, including in the kitchen.
Hi MB Mike
Good point regarding the “swell” direction. We live in Hawaii during the summer months so the handle originated from that orientation.
Renovation: We’ve done some minor renovation to two (of four) bathroom floors before we moved in but wanted to to wait at least a year before we embarked on a more substantial project.
The house across our street sold for 2.75m few months ago which gives me at least some assurance that the prices are stabilizing. The prices in the area hasn’t come down that much and there are still multiple bids around our neighborhood. We couldn’t see the house that sold across the street because there were multiple bids on the first day of listing and the listing agent didn’t hold an open house.
I’m looking for an architect and would appreciate any feedback on that as well.
Wife is pretty reasonable and would follow guidance from trusted sources so I think I’m ok there. Financially, I would rather spend the extra money in either a vacation home or investment property in San Diego but got to reward the wife for waiting 3yrs for the right priced/right location home to come along.
I like the bathroom in Jim’s video linked above…what type of tile was used in the showers and floors?
Also, the cabinets look good…is there a certain brand of cabinets that I should be looking for?
Southwestwell,
Good call to first ensure you will get your investment back at some point. I forgot about that and was fortunate from that aspect as well.
Interesting, my wife rides and would love to be in PV but I surf and need to be close to the water. We have friends there and I’ve noticed how many places in the area (RPV too) are in need of updating. Lots of older folks who bought way back when and now are on a fixed income…
I’d include Peter’s contact info but I’ll need to defer to JTR as to his policy on that.
Good luck!
Anyway, there’s a design/build firm that I’ve used in MB and vicinity that I can vouch for. The great thing about Peter (owns the company) is that he’s an architect and a general contractor. That way, you don’t have folks pointing their fingers at each other if and when there are issues.
If the main reason for the upgrade is merely to improve resale value, I would say don’t bother. Remodels rarely pencil out; that is they almost never increase the value of the house more than their cost.
Ever see the HGTV show “Bang for Your Buck”? They have people judge remodels and estimate what percentage of the investment they will get back at resale time. The winning remodel almost always gets a score of less than 100% (that is, even the best remodel loses money), with some of the losers in the 50-60% range.
Now, if the main reason for the upgrade is that you want fancy stuff, then just get what you want. Just keep in mind that even the most neutral remodel probably is a net money loser come resale time.
Geotpf,
Completely agree. You should only remodel if you plan to live in it for a minimum of 5 years. Investment-wise, the smarter your decisions, the better the return when/if you decide to sell. Not to mention, the better payoff in terms of quality of life.
If it is one of those 4o years old ,low 8 foot ceiling house, my 2 cents is don’t bother to remodel.
I tend to agree with Sean, I’d think a house will all travertine to be weird. I’d expect gorgeous real hardwood – maybe some nice patterns or an exotic bamboo (depending on the house.)
I’d also caution against materials that need regular sealing or upkeep. You’ll forget to do it and by the time you are ready to sell, it will need to be replaced. Rather than granite, look at quartz, which is harder and doesn’t need yearly sealing. The last Consumer Reports issue for kitchen remodels recommended quartz over granite.
On the kitchen side (speaking from experience)…
On the stove/range, there’s those that look good and those that actually COOK good. If you actually care about cooking, make sure that
a: The stove is OPEN BURNER. Sealed burners are just not nearly as effective at actually cooking: easier cleaning, worse cooking. Ick. BlueStar is particularly good for serious cooking. Viking is overrated IMO.
b: Have the hood over the stove be 6″ wider than the stove itself: any stove worth actually putting in in a high-end kitchen remodel should cook any cabinet if the cabinets are at the same pitch as the stove slot: you want the hood and clearance to be wider than the stove itself.
c: Having both a gas range with gas oven/boiler/convection AND a separate electric oven is the best combo. Without that, it depends on what you bake: If meat, gas is far better. For breads, electric is a bit better.
Also:
d: Do yourself a favor and make the fridge slot be standard depth not counter depth, and with a little extra cleranance on the top for better cooling:
Counter depth fridges store much less than a full depth, but most slots people build in for fridges are counterdepth.
And just use a good generic fridge: a Sub Zero etc doesn’t actually work any better, and being both counter depth and built-in, they REALLY don’t store much when compared with a generic standard-depth fridge.
e: Have a big single-tub wash sink and a small separate prep sink. Divided sinks for washing are just not as nice, and a separate prep sink (thus two SEPARATE sinks) allows multiple people to work in the kitchen easily at the same time.
Thanks Nicohlas!
Sean – I like the hardwoods too. The real hardwood floors are great….just don’t be lured over to the cheap stuff that looks similar – because it’s not that similar.
Some people question having hardwood floors in the kitchen due to spills. Just don’t invite any winos over.
Sean:
Your observation regarding wood floors is well noted. I actually placed cherry wood flooring in the master bathroom before we moved in. However, I do like the look and feel of travertine as well. I just wanted to make sure that my material choices on the floor and cabinets weren’t little outdated or off based…I still think the Miami Vice outfits look good.
Geotpf:
We are planning on living here until the kids finish college (approx 20 yrs) so the improvements are for my personal use. I’ll spend on quality items but sometimes have problems distinguishing between “trendy” and long term tasteful material choices.
Mike MB:
Whole area is populated with advance aged baby boomers who are/were very thrifty…probably the best generation of Americans to date. The quality school system much like MB brings a continuous influx of younger families which seems to keep the home prices at elevated levels.
You can tell that my ceilings are 8 ft.
They are good for the heating and air conditioning expense.
But agree that you are crazy to put big money into remodeling a old ranch with 8-footers. The bulk of today’s buyers put those in the second tier, especially in the high-end areas like PV or RSF.
I still think the Miami Vice outfits look good.
LOL
RC: Its hard to believe but the ceiling heights range from 12ft to 25 ft depending on the part of the home. We like the structure of the home other than a wall separating kithcen from dining room…we’ll knock that down. The house design is english tudor which I’ve grown to appreciate.
Art Electric: The original owner did update the home floors (omitted in the original post). Other than the kitchen,bathrooms and bedrooms, the floor is covered by 3/4 thick australian cypress wood. My wife decided to cover the wood in the bonus room and family room with carpet so the kids can tumble around and brighten up the room as well…but the carpet guys who came over asked why we are covering the wood.
Nicholas: Thanks for your valuable insight. I’m aware of the kithchen brands but haven’t really thought through the functionality component…thanks again.
I wouldn’t install carpet over nice hardwood, just get some really big area rugs with non-slip backing.
I’m curious. How well does travertine hold up to heavy traffic? It seems like dirt would get trapped in the crevices.
Jim
Do you know the tiles which were used in the bath remodel linked above? It looks like travertine but has a glazed look.
Also, what type of wood was used for the cabinets…it looks modern and warm.
Jinx
I agree with you on the big area rug concept. We couldn’t find an area rug big enought to cover the bonus room so we carpteted the whole thing. In retrospect, we should have used two area rugs and created two different gatherin areas.
MB Mike,
Go ahead and share your referral.
southswell – I thought that bathroom tile looked like marble.
Bathroom shown in the video really should have a five foot turnaround. Ouch on not supporting aging and ouch on bumping into things. (Speaking for us klutzes…)
What is considered a quality faucet and/or lighting.
Delta or Moen good quality or are there significantly better made faucets out there?
Art Electric – Thanks..I think you might be correct. The tiles look too shiny to be travertine. What is easier to maintain…marble v travertine?
I have hardwood thru out my primary home,excluding bathrooms, carpet on 2nd floor and travertine in our vacation home-I love my hardwood and dislike the travertine, very hard on the knees.
My hardwood, on raised foundation were installed in 1993, by hubby,we will most likly refinish them in the next couple of years.But the age so wonderful.
PS- I’v heard of people putting in bamboo flooring, than finding they are alergic to either the wood or glues used, and must alway have shoes or socks on
Southswell
Great if you have high ceiling !Like Jim said, I will get a team of good architect/contractor. To help with renovation. If it is an English Tudor, I will stay true to that in the details if budget permits.
I would also update those hidden plumbing if they are too old. You don’t want a pipe leaks after update the finishes.
Good luck.
I’m checking with the contractor on the bathroom tile and cabinetry. It has to be marble though.
Would try to add “nice” upgrades but not go crazy. Would also go for neutal changes, can add color with accents/accessories. Realtors always say everyone wants hardwood floors, so would go for those in as much of the house as possible (excluding baths possibly). Would chose granite for kitchen, neutral colored. Would chose stone for the baths – neutral travertine or marble (beige or brown tones) – Emperador Light or Dark are very popular. For cabinets, would chose a medium to dark brown, fairly traditional style with hammered pewter knobs. Stainless appliances, most of the super high end brands are overrated so would do homework on quality/reliability/satisfaction with a brand before you buy it. Closet organizers are nice. If you do all that, house should be really nice. From a previous Palos Verdes resident (who lives in San Diego, but really misses PV and is homesick just thinking about it)….
As someone who loves to cook and if you have the space to put a pantry in @ the kitchen, I would suggest making sure there are a couple electrical outlets to plug in appliances there if you have longer shelves. Then there’s a place for all that stuff that usually clutters up the kitchen counters that you may need day-to-day. I saw this in a listing while I was looking for my new house and it was a definite plus in my eyes. Just my two cents…
I love hardwood, the house I bought is ALL high-end hardwood. Gouged hardwood is especially nice: it can be beat to @#)@#(* and still look great.
But in the kitchen and bathrooms, you MUST have a tile of some sort. Spills happen in the kitchen, and it really needs to be a tile or linoleum: I’d much rather have cheap home despot tile in the kitchen than good hardwood.
Everywhere else, however, put in REAL hardwood (NOT laminate from Ikea, and not even the bamboo “hardwood”): real solid hardwood lasts longer, just walking and looking at it you can tell the difference, and if you want ‘carpet’, use big area rugs: you get the best of both worlds, a carpeted space with hardwood floors.
And REAL hardwood, unlike laminates, can be refinished 10-20 years from now should you decide to sell.
Finally, include an extra $200 in your home budget to buy yourself a roomba…
For countertops, at least take a look at concrete before you go with granite. There has been a real revolution in the past few years on cast concrete countertops: they can look better than granite, are way cheaper than granite, feel better than all the synthetics, and wear longer than all of them being very solid and non-porus.
Finally, I +N the advice of “do it for yourself”: Dont’ upgrade for the sake of a future sale, its almost invariably not worth it. Rather, do changes that make YOU happy.
EG, if you don’t like to cook? don’t bother doing a kitchen remodel: just make sure you have a decent and not expensive gas stove (don’t spend more than $700 in that case. You either want to spend $700 on a decent cheap gas stove or $4000 on a blue-star or the like, nothing in between) and call it good. Etc etc etc.
I’ll second Nicholas on making the changes YOU will need and want for daily living. I’m about to remodel my kitchen and I’m going through the exercise of planning what will be truly useful for my lifestyle and household. Remodeling to please some mythical future buyer is for flippers. What is the point of owning if you can’t customize the place to your liking? Otherwise, you might as well rent…
Don’t forget about energy efficiency as you upgrade – even though our heating and cooling costs are fairly low in this part of the country, energy efficiency upgrades will pay for themselves over the long haul and they WILL provide incentive to buyers of the future.
Nicholas W.,
I couldn’t disagree more about hardwood in the kitchen. Real hardwood floors are finished with multiple layers of polyeurethane, which is extremely water resistant. Unless you routinely spill huge amounts of water in your kitchen AND fail to clean it up within a reasonable amount of time, there is no problem with hardwood flooring in a kitchen. And as noted by others, it is far better feeling on the knees and feet of those who actually spend alot of time in the kitchen than a ceramic or stone tile.
The design build firm is called DemariaDesign.com. Ask for Peter DeMaria.
Sean, Agree on the hardwood in the kitchen. Typically, 3 coats of PU are applied to protect. Plan on an area rug/covering in high traffic areas (in front of sink).
Most of my designer friends here in SF have gone away from granite as of a few years ago and are now even going away from concrete. Ceaserstone is becoming more popular and also Soapstone if you really want something unique. That being said, I am looking at granite for my place in La Jolla to upgrade the tile since I will be selling in a year or two. Because granite is no longer the new trend, slabs are dirt cheap right now so I will recoup a little bit more of the investment.
I would not go with granite counters if you’re going to live there for more than a few years because its going to become VERY dated looking soon (and in the future will remind people of this real estate boom-bust).
Granite already became something of a McMansion symbol before the bubble burst (drive around SD County freeways and see how many “discount granite” dealers there are).
I disagree about the granite. Hard to see that going out of style for high end applications. Concrete, quartz, and all the synthetics look cheap in anything other than contemporary settings. Marble (like Calcatta Oro) is gorgeous but doesn’t look quite right in most kitchens. Trav/limestone are risky for staining (though like the marble, if honed finish and sealed often, and kept from overnight red wine spills can be fine).
Concerns about granite “going out of style” can be mitigated for the most part by buying a more uniform color (such as the black ones) and getting a straight edge. This will give it a more modern styling.
ocsecondhome:
Totally agree with the statement that tiles are hard on the knees…its amazing how your body reacts to different firmness in the flooring materials
RC:
By “hidden plumbing upgrades” are you suggesting re-piping the whole home? I have a concrete slab and that would be quite costly…
Kathy:
Thanks for your advice. We have friends in San Diego and my wife would love to switch places with you. Have you been to the new Terranea?…the views are great but I’m not a big fan of the sprawling development.
Susie:
Your “two cents” are well noted…thanks
Nicholas / BrettinLJ
Totally understand your views about granite. We’ve been leaning towards concrete or cesarstone. My wife wants a huge island so we are trying to find the best material to create a 20’x 6′ island. My wife agrees and appreciates your advice Nicholas.
MB Mike
Thanks for the contact info. Peter’s desing seem very “modern / minimalist” Looks quite expensive also…hope he is cheaper than he looks.
A large island is really nice. IN ours, the island has the wash sink and dishwasher.
Consider doing a two-level island, where the “back” is bar-height rather than counter-height, so you can dine at the island bar style, AND the backplash from the bar height makes the sink work better (no worries about splashing over the back).
Re: granite going out of style. I don’t know that “out of style” is really what we are talking about. In a high dollar home, granite won’t ever go out of style. However, how it holds up over 10 years when you forget to seal it regularly – that’s the thing. Are you going to have to replace it when it comes time to sell because it looks seriously “used.”
Now, on mid-range/entry-level housing, granite has become code for “over-improved with a lot of unnecessary upgrades that you don’t want to pay extra for.” Value buyers will not be swayed by high-end upgrades. They simply don’t want to pay extra – which is different from your upper end market.
As I mentioned, my kitchen remodel will be looking for the hardest, most durable material that is likely to last and look good over the next 20 years. I’m not seeing granite as possible material based on the need for sealing. The bottom line for me is how does it hold up over 20 years?
I’ve had granite for 10 years, never seal it, never baby it, and it looks fabulous. That is probably one of the biggest benefits of it – tough as steel.
Design publications say wood countertops are making a comeback. Some are using wood for just the island, others are doing the whole kitchen. I love wood countertops, but I think you’d need the right style home for them. They require maintainance, get a little beat up (call it character?) and you can never cut on them.
We did a kitchen upgrade upteen years ago and still really love it. We hashed it out in arguments for months but that time really paid out. The key thing was two sinks. We struggled and struggled with layout until we stuck that in the plan. Not sure why it didn’t occur to us sooner.
My rec when you are sketching ideas: make the following “triangles”/circuits as short and *non-overlapping* as possible:
Prep: fridge, fridge landing area, sink, prep appliance area, cutting zone.
Cook: stove, sink, landing spots, plating area
Cleanup: table, sink, dishwasher, dish cupboards
Emmi, excellent advice…do you have any sketches or blueprints of your kitchen? I’m interested in seeing how you laid everything out.
Emmi
Thanks for the triangulation concept…it works for the Lakers and in kitchen design